ההוא
דאתא לקמיה דרבא אמר לו במה אתה סועד אמר לו בתרנגולת פטומה ויין ישן אמר
ליה ולא חיישת לדוחקא דציבורא א"ל אטו מדידהו קאכילנא מדרחמנא קאכילנא
דתנינא (תהילים קמה) עיני כל אליך ישברו ואתה נותן להם את אכלם בעתו בעתם
לא נאמר אלא בעתו מלמד שכל אחד ואחד נותן הקב"ה פרנסתו בעתו אדהכי אתאי
אחתיה דרבא דלא חזיא ליה תליסרי שני ואתיא ליה תרנגולת פטומה ויין ישן אמר
מאי דקמא א"ל נענתי לך קום אכול
A man once applied
to Raba [for maintenance]. 'What do your meals consist of?' he asked
him. 'Of fat chicken and old wine', the other replied. 'Did you not
consider', [the Rabbi] asked him, 'the burden of the community?' 'Do I',
the other replied, 'eat of theirs? I eat [the food] of the
All-Merciful; for we learned: The eyes of all wait for Thee, and Thou
givest them their food in due season, this, since it is not said, 'in
their season' but 'in his season', teaches that the Holy One, blessed be
He, provides for every individual his food In accordance with his own
habits'. Meanwhile there arrived Raba's sister, who had not seen him for
thirteen years, and brought him a fat chicken and old wine. 'What a
remarkable incident!' [Raba] exclaimed; [and then] he said to him, 'I
apologize to you, come and eat'.
What are your thoughts? Should a person consider the 'burden of the community' in how they conduct their behavior? What does this middle section about how 'God provides in His season' mean?
Anna Comment #2
ReplyDeleteThis text is very interesting to me because while all of the other parts of this text we have studied so far believe in society/community providing for the poor, this text shows through a miracle that actually, G-d will always provide for you in your time of need. It appears that Ketuvot 67b starts to contradict itself.
In my opinion, the use of the miracle of Raba's sister whom he has not seen in 13 years, bringing him a fat chicken and old wine, is not a strong enough justification for the argument that if you were rich and now you are poor, you should be able to have the same standard of living. This miracle is very coincidental and out of nowhere. Also, it does not say how the man was provided for after this one miracle. One chicken and bottle of wine cannot provide you for the rest of the time that you are in poverty. Unless this miracle happened every day to the man, the argument that "Hashem will provide for everyone according to his habits", to me is not strong enough.
I think that one of the human race's greatest qualities is that we can easily survive and adapt to our environments. If something changes in our environments, we are resilient and we are able to survive. If a rich man becomes poor, I believe that he will be strong enough to move past it and although he might not have the same standard of living, he will have enough to survive and live. To me, this is enough. Although it might not be a habit for the rich man to eat lentils, his body and mind should be able to withstand it until he can eat luxuriously again. Hashem should not have to provide for him according to his habits.
Adina Comment #2
ReplyDeleteThis text has many differences in it from any other texts that we have learned so far this year. I think that the people who really believe in God would be the ones to believe in this text. God does not supply the poor with food on any given day it would have to be a real miracle. I agree with Anna when she said that we can survive and adapt to new environments if anything was to change from the way we are used to living. That is very simple for us to do.
I think it is important for a person to consider the 'burden of the community,' although that should not be anyone's top priority to provide for. One should definitely provide for themself before thinking about providing the burden of the community. When God said he will give them what they need when it is their season or his season I think it could mean when a person does good deeds or helps others in some way then they deserve to get what they need. A person can not only get what he wants whenever he wants it, he/she needs to earn it. When the time comes during the year that something they did stuck out in front of God's eyes then God would reward them by giving them what they need. If God is also doing well himself then he realizes it is time for him to provide for others. During God's season he has everything he needs, therefore can start giving to others. I do not think that God should have to provide for others based off of his own habits, I think it should be more based off of others habits to determine what he should give.
Bruce Comment #5
DeleteWell it is important to consider the burden of the community it is not the job of the well of individual to carry the weight of the world on his or her shoulders. The reality is that well there are a large amount of very poor people in the world there is a good amount of the very rich. If that group of people sits around their entire life weeping for balance and equality in economics they will drown in their own tears. I think what the two A girls before me have alluded we as humans can adapt. I think a lot of the recent posts have hit on that idea of survive and advance. I'm confused by what "in the season.." is referring to
Rachel Bonus Comment #2
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of what Adina is saying, because a person doesn't have to consider the burden of their community, and that shouldn't be their main priority. When people consider the community, it is very generous, but sometimes, they shouldn't make it the center of what they get. For example: If you know that I really like beans, it may be nice of you to get less bean. in order to leave for me. However, that doesn't mean you should never get beans. Another example, is if you know when someone is struggling financially, and you purposely get less food, you are making it worse for yourself because of the lack of food. A way to help people that are poor, is not to get less food for yourselves, but get more food, in order to give you and them. This is both generous, and helping the burden of the community.
The one thing I did not agree on with Adina, is how this texts differs from others we have learned. In this text the topic of both the burden of the community and about how people should be treated with their own habits are brought up. We learned about the burden of the community in the beginning of the year, when we discussed the burden of the community vs. the individual. This is discussed right here, when they ask about how you eat your meals.The question was "Do you eat fro yourself? Or do you consider the burden of the community?" This brings up the question again, of what you should do when you are against a community. The other topic, is eat what you are accustomed to. We have learned about this very recently, and talked it great detail about it. I think this text does a good job of linking past and present lessons. and considering it is nearing the end of year, it is a prefect end of our torah learning.