The Talmud suggests that a formerly rich man should be maintained by the community in a different way than a poor man (look here and here).
If Winthorp came to the Jewish community for help, what is the community's responsibility? Would you treat him differently than you would have Billy Ray (Eddie Murphy) is he came to you?
Daniel Bush COmment 5
ReplyDeleteIf Winthorp came to the Jewish community it would be our responsibilty to help get him back on his feet. Obviously the community shouldnt put him back where he was, as that would be very stupid since all the excess money he had could go to others in need. He would get food and clothing, but he would not recieve the lifestyle he formerly had. I believe that if Billy Ray had come to the community, when he was needy, to ask for help that he would be treated the same as Winthorp.It doesnt matter what their backgrounds were, the point is they are people who are currently in need of help. It shouldnt matter a persons background, but realistically it does. Personally i would be more willing to give to a homeless person who graduated high school, went to college, and just got really unlucky, than a crack addict who dropped out of high school and doesnt even know how many kids he/she has. I feel this way because if i give a crack addict money its going to be used on crack. However if i give someone with all the tools to be successful an oppurtunity to get off their feet and become successful, then they are the clear choice of who to give to.
Mia Comment #6
DeleteI disagree with Daniel when he says that if Billy Ray would join the community he would get treated the same as Winthorp and that is because Winthrop is so accustomed to the rich life he had before he was forced into poverty he would never truly appreciate what we would do for him. He would always want more than we gave him and always think that anything we did could never come close to what he had before. Billy Ray on the other hand would appreciate everything we did for him because he is more appreciative of what we give him. This is due to the fact he does not know what it is to not be in poverty. He would appreciate everything we did for him because it is more than he could ever ask for. Personally I would treat then equally. I know that Billy would appreciate everything more but to be realistic they're both in poverty and need help and their past should not determine what they receive to re-create their future.
Gabi Bonus Comment #1
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniel when he says that the community shouldn't put Winthorp back where he was, but should definitely help get him back on his feet. I think the same should be done for Billy Ray and they should oth be treated equally. However, it is hard to say that a person's background doesn't matter, because, as Daniel brings up, a person's background could have a huge impact on what they are going to use the money for, and whether it will be used for good or bad. When giving homeless people money, it is almost impossible to know whether they will be smart with it or whether they will go buy drugs, alcohol, or something else that won't help them. I would also be more likely to help the person that would use the money I gave them for a good purpose. But since it is so hard to tell what a person will ultimately use the money for, I think a safer route than giving money could be to give food. A poor person who is on the right track will always appreciate food that is given to them, while a person who would rather take your money and use it to buy some illegal substance might not be as grateful. Either way, you are helping someone in need which is always a good deed.
Bruce Comment #2 similarly to what Daniel and Gabi said for be the level of treatment depends of the mans background. Here is an extremely applicable true life situation. Bernie Madoff the former investment manager and a member of jewish community. He was sitting pretty as one of the richest men in the US in early 2009 until he was charged with a ponzi scheme and was forced to relinquish all of his worldly finance. In real life he went to jail and that was the end of that, but for the sake of our example lets pretend that he ended up as a homeless man in Denver, Colorado. regardless of the fact that he is a man of wealth and a man from the jewish community I would still not treat him in a fashion he is used to. He is scum and does not deserve it. I agree in another light with Daniel's opinion on the crack addict v college graduate.
ReplyDeleteJason Comment #6
ReplyDeleteIf a man who blew through all of his money and spent it irresponsibly came for tzedukah, I would not want to help him because it was his mistakes that led him to becoming poor. Below I have attached an article that talks about what wealthy men spend on. Most of these things are not needed and can, if bought enough, could turn a wealthy man poor. http://blog.wealthymen.com/tag/things-rich-men-like-to-blow-money-on/
If a poor man asked for help and had never been rich, I would be inclined to help them because they may have not had the same opportunities to become wealthy.
(i.e. Good education, healthy childhood environment) They deserve to be helped so that maybe, just maybe, your donation could lead them to do great things. (You never know right?)
Zachary Bonus #1
ReplyDeleteIn my own way of doing things, I would do the same thing for Winthorp and Valentine. I would see what kind of misery they are in, why they are like this, how they became like this and what ways I can get them both on their feet again. Obviously, I only want to provide them for they things they need...not any extra desires. I wouldn't get them like a 50 inch plasma flat screen tv with movie theater seats. I believe that they need to work for what they want. I would probably let them both sleep in my basement and help them for about a month. I will not let them take advantage and just live there.
I think the Jewish community would do the same what I am doing. Help both men in the same exact way. I would believe that people would help Winthorp as much as they would help Valentine. Valentine started off like that and Winthorp lost everything within 24 hours. It is simply amazing and also sad how much someone's life can change in a matter of time. Overall, I am pretty sure the community would help with both of them.
Anna Comment #6
ReplyDeletePersonally, the movie Trading Places really reminds me of the story of Job in Prophets and there are many parallels between them. In the story of Job, G-d decides to inflict pain, hardship, and suffering on a fortunate man named Job. He has many children, a wife, and stable living conditions. Hashem wants to see how Job will react when he causes all of these terrible things to happen to him, just like in the movie when the rich brothers want to see what would happen to Winthorp when they took everything from him. Hashem kills all of Job's children and his wife, causes Job to lose his success and fortune, and he turns everyone in the community against Job, making them believe that Job must be an evil person to incur such wrath from Hashem. They decide that since he is evil they should not help him. Job is helpless and miserable, with nothing left, just as Winthorp appears before he overdoses on pills in an effort to kill himself.
From these two stories, one from our own American culture and cinema, and the other a true story from the Tanach, we can learn that honestly, sometimes bad things just happen to good people. It is not their fault, nor anything they did that deserved such suffering. They just were down on their luck and were put in a terrible situation. Instead of turning our backs on these people because we think that they caused their own predicament, like the characters in the movie and the people in Job's community, we need to give these people the most support and kindness possible and try to bring them out of their suffering. We should not really question our reasoning behind who we give tzedakah to too much; we just need to accept people who are asking for help and help them. I believe it is really as simple as that.
(Nathan #6)
ReplyDeleteIf Winthrop came to a Jewish to receive help, he would be already to accustomed to his luxurious lifestyle and to prideful in being a part of the upper crust that he'd take donation or assistance from a small community. It's like the other text we discussed about the poor man who wouldn't accept the donation because he was too ashamed of being forced to take a gift or loan from the community. As for if Billy Ray came to the community for help, he had already been accustomed to the current situation and merely needed a little "pick me up" to get him on his feet (despite his attempts to hide them for begging). In huge contrast to Winthrop, Billy Ray would have been more accepting of a donation, although there is a strong possibility he will take like a cat who constantly desires more and request several additional donations from the community in the future, but this last statement is just hypothetical.
Adina Bonus Comment #2
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Daniel and Gabi said about helping Winthrop back on his feet and that a person's background really does make a difference. A person's background determines where they stand in life and that will tell you what they are going to spend your personal money on. The Jewish community's responsibility would be to help Winthrop. Our job would be to give him enough to get his life back on track, but not to give him anymore than what he needs. The Jewish community is known as a generous community whom likes to help the poor and give Tzedakkah to those in need. By doing these good things for others it makes us Jews look good, therefore we have a good reputation and then more poor people come to us for help. I would treat Billy Ray the same way that I would treat Winthrop even if that may not seem fair. Life isn't always fair, although I think treating people with the same amount of respect is very important.
Samuel Fogel Comment #4
ReplyDeleteJealously is a common yet not always a good virtue present in all human beings. Money is most defiantly the most common reason for jealousy and you know who had a lot of money? Winthorp. After reading through a bunch of my fellow classmates comments I was bewildered by all the negativity toward Winthorp. My views may seem very facetious but when a person has become very successful through legale terms I cant hate on them for doing so well, it would just be jealousy. Yes Winthrop has an attitude that shouts I am rich and better then you but in my eyes he has earned those rights. In the situation Billy and Winthrop came to the jewish community I would treat Winthorp better then billy. Billy used not having legs to gain sorrow and sympathy from others which seems horrible to me because not only did he lie but he was basically stealing from others. Winthorp on the other hand was not fake and had just fallen in to some true bad luck so I would actually feel for him. Winthorp was real and had real problems so I think he should actually be treated better then Billy.